By Rawlston Pompey former commissioner of police for ANR
STUPID AND IGNORANT?: True that in matters like these ‘Police’ shall: (i) ‘…First be seen as a Law enforcer: (ii) …As ‘Protecting and serving’ the citizens: and (iii) …As ‘…Peace Maker.’
They shall ‘APPROACH’ their duty with, inter alia: (a) ‘…TACT: and (b) …DISCRETION.’ Where these are lacking, then expect incidents like: ‘The reckless ‘…Denfield ‘Tody’ Thomas’ Murder in Liberta over a ‘…BABY BAG’ [October 2006].
Today, it is over ‘…Handing over of a Child.’ Police officers who do not know the ‘LAW’ and the ‘DIFFERENCE’ between ‘CRIME’ and ‘TORT’ or ‘…CrimInal offence and ‘…Domestic Issues,’ would always be seen as acting ‘…STUPID AND IGNORANT.’ Professionally, speaking, this ‘ARREST’ seem unlawful and these ‘Charges’ will be ‘DIsmissed.’
WHY?: ‘…An officer enforcing law ‘NOT IN THE EXECUTION OF DUTY,’ could never adduce evidence that a ‘CRIME’ was committed, and that he was ‘…INVESTIGATING IT.’
Moreover, when officers are allowed to ‘ENTER’ onto ‘…PRIVATE PREMISES,’ when ‘TOLD’ to leave, they ‘…MUST LEAVE.’
The occupier of ‘…Private Property,’ reserves the ‘RIGHT’ to use ‘…REASONABLE FORCE,’ in ‘…EJECTING ANY PERSON,’ including ‘…POLICE OFFICERS’ without ‘LEGAL AUTHORITY (Warrant) or some ‘…JUSTIFIABLE REASONS,’ to investigate crime.
If there was a ‘…SHOUT OF MURDER’ or ‘GUNSHOT SOUND,’ then he needs ‘…NO LEGAL AUTHORITY.
However, ‘Only a ‘STUPID OFFICER,’ will enter when he heard a ‘…GUNSHOT FIRED.’
If they know these things, then there would less need for ‘…CONFRONTATION AND UNLAWFUL ARREST.’ Screw up your darn faces, it is for ‘…CITIZENS and …POLICE’ to know. ‘…NO LEGAL FEES.’
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I am doin
I am not a police officer, but I do not agree with Pompey. The police officers did not turned up at Jonas address because they were bored and nothing to do, they were called and as law enforcement officers.
Citizens expected them to maintain the King’s peace. They responded to the call, they attended the address where the peace was purported to be in question.
The officers endeavoured to ascertain the problem and Jonas became out of control. The police didn’t say they were removing the minor. Jonas did not present any evidence of a court order granting him custody of the child on the day in question.
The police endeavour to ward off Jonas unlawful threats, the officers attended in police uniform and it cannot be legally acceptable for Jonas to threatened them with a fire arm, and for that alone he should be charged and appear before the courts for threatening behaviour.
I take the view that the police should refer the matter to social services and an allocated social worker should apply to the courts for an injunction to prevent Jonas from having direct contact with the minor, but offer him supervised contact at a designated children centre.
Additionally, I don’t think that’s lawful for the video to have gone viral depicting the minor and therefore youtube should be asked to remove it.
To conclude: it appears that the police officers are being blamed unfairly and undoubtedly if they had not responded the public would be accusing them of being negligence, now they have responded they are being accused of being incompetent. We cannot have our cake and eat it.
You don’t understand the law of Antigua and Barbuda neither as your right as a citizen
I will forgive you since you obviously are a novice to the law. No crime was being committed. She made a complaint which was not properly interrogated. They presumptuously went to the man’s home with the complainant. That’s the first error. They had no warrant. They were asked the to leave and they should have left immediately. This is a civil matter. They ought to have known better. I can guarantee you that if it were a high official, they would not have gone to the property. They will be eaten alive in court. It is also alleged that she is a friend of the police.
Totally agree. Like Pompey said, this is good for the police and the public to know. This is a protection for all involved because police would know that in the future that’s now how we conduct ourselves and a citizen would be more informed of his or her constitutional right as a citizen of Antigua and Barbuda. We’re not in a police state where a police can March on to your property without cause and even kill you. A police state describes a state whose government institutions exercise an extreme level of control over civil society and liberties.
Different issues arise in a ”totalitarian police state.” Some well-known examples include Nazi Germany between 1939 and 1945, fascist Italy, the Soviet Union, Ba’athist Iraq, Ba’athist Syria, Libya, Communist China, and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (North Korea). I don’t believe anyone in Antigua and Barbuda wants to be like North Korea.
FEARLESSLY: …IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY
Respect your ‘RIGHT’ to ‘…DISAGREE.’
Not a problem.
Can say ‘…Fearlessly’ and ‘…Unapologetically,’ only ‘sheer ‘…Ignorance and Stupidity,’ would cause one to ‘DISAGREE’ with ‘…POMPEY.’
When the Court ‘DISMISS’ the charges, you might also say, the ‘…MAGISTRATE’ was wrong.
Here is even more ‘…STUPIDITY:’ …A person can ‘ONLY’ eat cake that he/she has.
It may have been correctly said: ‘…We cannot ‘EAT’ our cake and believe we still ‘HAVE’ IT.
‘…Wee dun nyan arf arl de kake, sah wee cyar hab moh feh nyam anless we git moh’ (Vernacular).
@Antigua4ever, I think you should just listen to Pompey. While I believe the officers could have made a courtesy call on Jonas, they should not have walked with the mother and when asked to leave, they should have done so immediately since they did not have a warrant.
Jonas did not have to present the evidence, he is a parent of the child. Was the chd removed from the mothers home without her knowledge?
I did not hear Mr. Jonas threaten the police with his firearm. He commented that the police came on his property with their arms. He said he.could go in for his but he never stated his intent to do anything with it either.
I agree 100 percent
You don’t have to agree but the law has and the constitution has the authority. If this was not in place a police could bust in your home at anytime and threaten, arrest you and worse kill you and claim he was defending himself. Don’t let personal feelings let you circumvent the law. No one is above the law. Plus police sometimes feel they are above the law. Once he asked them to leave they was supposed to once it was established that he didn’t commit any crime. In the audio one police said that she is the mother(paraphrasing). It sounded to me like he was saying she’s entitled to the child. That was for the court to decide not an emotional mother to try to unlawfully use the police to do which is outside of his duty. He obviously doesn’t know the law. Another thing, as an officer, he should have de-escalate situation and leave because arresting him in the presence of his children open them up to emotional trauma and even psychological damage. A police that is doing what Mr. Pompey said above would have kept that in mind. That’s where they need to amend the law to include. Avoid arresting parents in the presence of their children and allowing them to see him being taken away in shackles.
As I have said from seeing the video clip, Dean Jonas will win on every charge in this case. The police had no right to be there, especially with the complainant, the mother of the child. It’s a civil matter. The police are not properly trained on handling these matters. They did it because they think that he is no longer elected. Their case will be trashed in court
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The Child was in no danger therefore the police should advise the woman to get a lawyer.
That incident was Standard Operating Procedure for the police and Pompey knows that. All officers know what the law is and do not need Pompey to interpret for them.
As Paddy would say “a nah wa say a who say”. The reason why this was an issue is because of who is involved. The public has an expectation that the police can solve all their problems. This puts pressure on the police to exert their authority to resolve disputes.
If the police takes a hands off approach and advise citizens to see a lawyer for civil matters, the very people would ask why the police cannot intervene?
So the next time you cannot get your box hand get a lawyer, because it is a civil matter and out of the durisdiction of the police. END
IDIOCY IN THE HIGHEST DEGREE: …DON’T MENTION POMPEY
Melly, My Long Time Friend:
Whoever you are, when you relate to ‘POMPEY’S’ in this manner, know that he is likely to say;
‘This is ‘…Idiocy and Stupidity’ in the ‘…Highest Degree.’
You should be ‘…Searching for Knowledge,’ and ‘…Wage War’ on ‘…Illiteracy and ‘Dunceness.’ Instead, you seemed to be cultivating it with ‘…Nonsensical Diatribe.’
The ‘…INTERPRETATION’ is neither for supposedly ‘…Trained and Knowledgeable Police officers,’ nor for ‘…African Hyaenas: …Cheetahs: and …Alligators’ or people with their instincts.
These are ‘…Instinctively Vicious.’ They have attacked any prey for ‘…FOOD.’
For the ‘LAYMAN’ who would not wish to be treated with ‘…INDIGNITIES’ at their residences, when they have committed ‘…NO CRIMINAL OFFENCE.’
JURISDICTIONS:
If you understand these, you may see where the obviously ‘ …LACKED KNOWLEDGE OFFICERS,’ made the ‘Professional Errors.’
(i) ‘…SUMMARY JURISDICTIONS
(ii) …CIVIL JURISDICTIONS: and
(iii) …CRIMINAL JURISDICTIONS.’
NOW: ‘Of these three ‘Jurisdictions,’ try to figure out which of these the ‘Responding officers’ were dealing with.
Just give a ‘BRIEF’ explanation on all three jurisdictions for the benefit of readers.
If you, cannot, say so and ‘…REQUEST POMPEY’S ASSISTANCE.’
Will most happily oblige.
@Mr Pompey
The report from the police’s diary was not made public, therefore no conclusion can be be made in reference to jurisdiction.
If the report was about the physical wellbeing of the child then the police would be acting lawfully since a criminal offense may have occurred or likely to occur based on the woman’s report.
In the heat of the moment reaction rather than reason can occur.
Mr Pompey can you say that events of August 8th went according to the law? The police was shooting tear gas at people that were fleeing with their backs turned. Where is the investigation for that incident, where is the song and dance?
MOST SENSIBLE QUESTION
Now, you have asked one of the ‘…Most Sensible Questions,’ ‘Mel.’
JURISDICTION:
Anything to do with:
(a) ‘…Parents and Children,’ that is ‘…CIVIL JURISDICTION;’
(b) …Anything to do with ‘Child Custody,’ ….CIVIL JURISDICTION;
(c) …Anything to do with ‘CRIME,’ dependent upon the nature and gravity, it may either be:
(i) ‘…Summary Jurisdiction (Trial by Magistrate): or
(ii) …Criminal Jurisdiction (Magistrate Commit: …DPP Indict for Judge/Jury Trial).’
Though the process begins with the Police, the ‘SOLE’ authority, is the ‘DPP.’
MEL, without reading the ‘…POLICE DIARY,’ the responding officers were ‘NOT’ investigating a ‘…REPORT OF CRIME.’ ‘…De mudder onely arst de Poleece fe ‘elp har git bac har picknee’ (Vernacular).
No ‘CRIME’ was committed by ‘…DEAN JONAS,’and ‘NONE’ was reported to the Police.
Still saying, ‘Should they discipline ‘…Corporal Jason Joseph,’ they also need to discipline the apparent ‘…IGNORANT SUPERVISOR.’ He shall have been ‘…PROPERLY BRIEFED,’ before he was dispatched.
NOTE:
HELL WORK IF A ‘FRIEND’ HAD CALLED HIM AND ASKED TO ASSIST THE LADY.
Could be in ‘…SHIP STREET.’
Not even sure if ‘SHIP’ is the correct word. That can be figured out, though.
MELLY IS NOT RESPONDING
Though not asked, ‘VOLUNTEERING,’ not for you, though.
For those that are not ‘…Familiar with Police Work and Procedures.’
POMPEY’S BACKGROUND:
(i) ‘…Formal training in ‘…LAW ENFORCEMENT;’
(ii) …Practical enforcement of Law;
(iii) …Police Prosecutor (Magistrate’s Courts);
(iv) …Head of Criminal Investigations Department (CID):
(v) …Though a short tenure, Command and Control of the ‘…Royal Police Force of Antigua and Barbuda (RPFAB).
DUNCE: …PUBLIC DISASTER
These are positions that require ‘…NO DUNCY HEAD POLICE OFFICER.’
Inviting ‘…PUBLIC DISASTER’ to assign these positions to a ‘DUNCE.’
NOW: …JURISDICTIONS:
(i) ‘….Summary: These speak to ‘…an OFFENCE,’ triable ‘ONLY’ by ‘..Magistrates:’
(ii) …Civil: ‘ These are ‘Torts.’ They are ‘…NON-CRIMINAL MATTERS: ONLY the really
‘STUPID POLICE OFFICERS DABBLE IN THEM,’ when they have no ‘…Criminal
Jurisdictions.’ An officer that has ‘…KNOWLEDGE’ and know the ‘…DIFFERENCE’
between: (i) …A Crime: and (ii) …A Civil dispute.’ They may seek to ‘…PERSUADE,’
not to ‘COERCE’ or order, instruct or command.’ They have such legal authority.’ When
‘…PERSUASION’ failed, they shall advise ‘…AGGRIEVED PARTY’ to institute ‘…LEGAL
PROCEEDINGS’ against the offending party. Only ‘… stupidity, ignorance and aggressiveness,’ in the officer would lead to: ‘…Argument: …Arrest: …Scuffle: and ‘…BRUTAL FORCE.’ Then ‘…GOVERNMENT SETTLE AND PAY.’
(iii) …CRIMINAL JURISDICTIONS,’ resides ‘ONLY with the ‘DPP.’
Not the Police.’
WHY?: (i) ‘…Only the ‘DPP’ may ‘ORDER’ Committal Proceedings: and
(ii) …Only the ‘DPP,’ may prepare and file ‘…INDICTMENTS’ for ‘…Judge and Jury Trials.’
My friend, ‘…Melly,’ these ‘…LESSONS’ are ‘…FREE.’ Lawyers do not do this for ‘FREE.’
Not saying ‘Melly’ is, but they are intended to eliminate ‘…DUNCENESS.’
Mr. Pompey, I truly appreciate this and that you are now using your knowledge to inform the public. Most people are so emotional and all it took was for an emotional woman to get you to act in an unlawful way. While I’m not calling her emotional out of disrespect, even if the police feels any sympathy for her and what she said to them, knowing the law would have prevented them from going there with her.
You can’t attempt to stronghold someone on their own premises when there’s no law broken. Investigate and then leave. Instead, she tried to use another man to do what she couldn’t do rather than letting the court decide. The children are his too.
Police often don’t see themselves as peace makers, they see themselves as enforcers, and that’s where the training needs to emphasize more.
A police once walk up to me to ask me to move from an area I was parked for about a minute dropping off some tourists, he came up to me and with an aggressive tone and banging on my window, he in a disrespectful manner telling me to move. He obviously was in-sighting a negative response so he can embarrass me or arrest me. Even the tourist that already exited the vehicle looked backed with a surprising expression on their face.
Another instance a police thought where I was standing to pick up an elderly woman was blocking the traffic behind and he started to hurl curse words (bad wud) at me to move while he was getting into his red sports care to drive off in a supermarket parking lot. When I responded “that’s not how you talk to a man” he said he can arrest me for blocking traffic in the parking lot of private property.
So Mr. Pompey is absolutely correct and this should be an impetus for all to be familiar with the law and their rights as citizens. It is on the government website free of cost.
Mi nah back labour party but wrong a wrong right a right. The police officer or officers acted unprofessionally in respond to the call. Looking at this whole thing it seemed to me like them other and the police were are friends. Too many times I see shit slide all because people call them police friend. Look at the accident that happen on All Saints road. A black Lexus ran right into a white Honda and the police woman of John Hughes and the guy of the black Lexus had some sort of relationship and the report say the white Honda was at fault rubbish. He Mr. Jonas had all rights to use force. You came to inquire about the call been made he stood calmly and tell you what it is. Now your been an ass or a fish talking bout who you making noise on me or her? Y’all police here in Antigua use y’all uniform as say yeah y’all above the law. If I say get off my propert after I had explain to you get the hell off. You don’t have a court order nor warrant then leave. I swear if y’all ever ever… It ain’t gonna be nice y’all would have to kill me. Ever so often these officers act out of line and the Government don’t seems to look into these types of things. God forbid I don’t want to ever come across this myself nor with my family members cuz it not go end up nice.
I have just 3 questions for the the over night legal expert here
1. Where in the laws of Antigua and Barbuda says that the mother of the child should always have the child? Please point out which Act, Section? Is it even a law or just a bad practice that has never been challenged?
2. Who leaked this video? If that footage was shot by a body camera or the officer’s cellphone how did it get out in the public domain? Isn’t this a breach of confidentialty?
3. Where was the social worker (welfare officer) to look about the wellbeing of the child in question? From since when police officers can get in the middle of a child custody despiute? Is this not a civil matter for the family court and social services department?
I don’t know what is the procedure in Antigua about body cam footage but I know that any citizen can obtain the body cam footage of any incident from the police once a certain time has passed. Even if it has nothing to do with you, you can request it. That said, maybe Mr. Jonas did, if it was body cam footage. But I get your point too especially that it could be a cell phone.
Also, when are they supposed to put on their body cam? Is it for every interaction with someone or was it because of who was involved? (A former MP?) I hope he wasn’t trying to grandstand, why your questions make so much sense about the release of the video.
Yes Mr Pompey I too remember the Toby Thomas matter and the related discussions. Clearly the police (in this instance) show they have not leaned. This is not good for an important entity like the police force where mistakes can result in death
This is my Two Cents as a former Police officer, I was told as a Recruit the Police Training Manual was written by Sir. Wright George. The Manual Mainly Adresses Criminal Procedure, that Manual need to be Revised! The Police are rarely Lectured on the Civil Proceedings and how to Handle them. The Senior officers taught you very little … those that ” know” don’t Teach , they have a Mind – set if they teach you, you will be elevated and leave them Behind. Thanks to Lawyer John Fuller R.I.P He taught me alot of Civil Law. If the Police don’t get the Proper Training from the Training Academy (Civil and Crimal Law )we will always have this Problem. The young Police officers have good intentions but they lack Proper Guidance and Supervision. What I admired in the Video, the Police officer was very calm.. 👍🏾
Macbeth george
Ret. Police officer.
I was told as a Police Recruit the Police Training Manual was written by Sir. Wright George. The Manual Mainly Adresses Criminal Procedure, that Manual need to be Revised! The Police are rarely Lectured on the Civil Proceedings and how to Handle them. The Senior officers taught you very little … those that ” know” don’t Teach , they have a Mind – set if they teach you, you will be elevated and leave them Behind. Thanks to Lawyer John Fuller R.I.P He taught me alot of Civil Law. If the Police don’t get the Proper Training from the Training Academy (Civil and Crimal Law )we will always have this Problem. The young Police officers have good intentions but they lack Proper Guidance and Supervision. What I admired in the Video, the Police officer was very calm.. 👍🏾
Macbeth george
Ret. Police officer.
Mr. Pompey, it seems that your former colleague Mr. Nuffield Burnette is not in agreement with you at all. Having listened to him this morning on Twin Island Media house, he claimed the police acted within the law and acted properly. Hope you had the benefit of listening to him and I await your rebuttal of his views
So Mr. Pompey if you choose not to respond to what your former colleague had to say it simply means you done know whether you are right either. Thanks for not wanting to educate us.
If it was an ordinary man made the offense , the case would never be discharged…seems a bit bias
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