Dr Thwaites breaks down the concept of immunity to a virus

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He was speaking last night at the UPP education forum on COVID-19 vaccines:

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15 COMMENTS

  1. What difference in information did Thwaites bring that he has not said the 4-5 times he would have appeared on VOP and also on jojo show?

      • If you call public education noticement then notice we need.

        Bring more I say. Bring more UPP. There’s never enough information in this day and age.

        Not everyone goes online or certain radio stations.

        Get real!

        • Thar is the sad truth that some people cannot even tell you about the educational programs brought on other media houses. Not even on our government stations like ABS TV and Radio. Cause the good doctor has made his rounds on many other stations already, yet it is new for some people. That is the sad state that we are living in.

  2. Natural Immunity responds to the ENTIRE surface of the virus, that’s why it is broad, robust and durable. With natural infection both the humoral and cell mediated arms of the immune system are activated.
    The CV19 vaccines induces narrow immunity, because the vaccines were tailored to the spike protein ONLY — which causes the spike to be prone to mutations, and is the main driver of the variants. And that’s why the variants can evade the immune response of the vaccinated.

  3. If Noticement is successful in achieving one more vaccination and saving one more life, it is worth it. We should get into the noticement biz to save this country.

  4. How void can people be any and all information helps when people are trying to make their minds up.

    Too much information cannot be enough. If we want all hands on deck then all churches and political parties and NGO’S should be in this fight.

    If a church had done this forum u would said the same things and be so dismissive. So if the UPP does nothing u vex and when they do something u still vex. Well is Nothing you have to.

    Big UP to the UPP JOB WELL DONE. you haters can atleast say that but true to you character ur JUST HATERS!!!
    GO IN GOD’S PEACE

  5. “Natural Immunity responds to the ENTIRE surface of the virus”
    True, and in the case of coronaviruses, that’s actually not a good thing….see below.

    “that’s why it is broad, robust and durable.”
    In the case of the coronavirus, that’s False. The immune system is not infallible and does not guarantee successful removal of pathogen. All it takes is some malnutrition or chronic disease state and your immune system becomes weak. The main function of the antibodies in this case is to prevent cell entry. A coronavirus whose spike protein active sites are covered in antibodies is not able to enter cells vis use of the ACE2 receptor. It’s been neutralized. Antibodies attached to other parts of the virus don’t stop it from entering cells. They only assist macrophages and NK cells with gobbling up the virus, which is a much less effective process given how prolific the virus has become at replication.

    “With natural infection both the humoral and cell mediated arms of the immune system are activated.”
    Both humoral and cell mediated immunity are activated with vaccination also. Furthermore, cell mediated immunity functions primarily by killing infected cells. This is actually one of the things that causes most of the tissue damage that happens during infection.

    “The CV19 vaccines induces narrow immunity, because the vaccines were tailored to the spike protein ONLY”

    False. Some of the vaccines use attenuated whole coronavirus. But what you clearly don’t get is that regardless of if you’re vaccinated or not, it’s the antibodies formed to stick to the spike protein that are most important in stopping the viral infection. Natural immunity depends on that type of antibodies also because the other random antibodies formed via antigen presentation of random parts of the virus don’t stop the virus when they attach to viral surfaces.

    “…which causes the spike to be prone to mutations, and is the main driver of the variants. And that’s why the variants can evade the immune response of the vaccinated.”

    That’s a distorted view of what’s going on. Mutations are random. Vaccines don’t cause them, they happen because the enzymes used by these RNA viruses to replicate their RNA is highly error prone to the point where errors are guaranteed. Everyone who gets infected actually produces mutated viral particles with new errors in their genome. But I agree that vaccination will inevitably help the virus. That’s because the virus particles most likely to survive inside a vaccinated person’s body are the ones least susceptible to the immune system’s response. But bare in mind that the same is also true for persons who gained immunity via infection. The virus doesn’t care where anyone gets their immunity from. It’s going to mutate its way around them. You should also be aware that, like other RNA viruses, coronaviruses have a nasty ability to use antibodies themselves to get inside immune cells that are trying to eat them and infect those cells. Most of those mechanisms involve the exploitation of non neutralizing antibodies, the type of antibodies you get more of when you try for natural immunity. This antibody dependent enhancement of infection could potentially become a problem in the future, particularly in persons who were unvaccinated when infected.

    I’m pro vaccination but not pro coronavirus vaccination. I’ve got more vaccines than the average person already. They’re playing with fire this time with the coronavirus because they knew before this pandemic started that vaccination could not be successful used against coronaviruses and it comes with the risk I just described above. But they’re not telling the public about the known future risk, but are instead crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. Do you know that there’s a vaccine for dengue? You’ll see them do their vector control spraying of mosquitoes but they never mandate the dengue vaccine or even mention it. Why? Because it causes antibody dependent enhancement leading to dengue hemorrhagic fever….just like coronaviruses can.

    • Excellent read, but the vaccines in the mean time seems to be working. Only one vaccinated person out of fifteen had died of covid19 in Antigua so far.

    • I’m not sure, but, are you saying that malnourished or chronic disease persons that may have a suboptimal or even no immune response from natural infection would mount a stronger immune response from a vaccine?

      Covid’ vaccines do not stimulate a significant
      (neutralizing) amount of secretory or mucosal IgA. IgA produced by vaccine is SERUM IgA and is in blood not the mucosa. And for a respiratory virus isn’t that what you would want?
      “Plasma IgA monomers specific to SARS CoV2 protein were demonstrated to be twofolds LESS potent than IgG equivalents. However, IgA dimers the primary form of antibodies in the Nasopharynx, were, 15 times more potent than IgA monomers against the same target. Thus, dimeric IgA responses may be particularly valuable for protection against SARS CoV2 and for vaccine efficacy.” Hence, the reason they are coming out with the inhalation vaccine. And I would dare to say, why the naturally recovered are not filling hospital beds with reinfection.

      Inflammation is a natural response to infection. A healthy immune system knows when to send out the Macrophage 2 to cool down the cytokines. I will argue that inadequate amounts of vitamin D is what triggers cytokine storms leading to tissue damage.

      As for ADE, are you saying that mass vaccination has no potential to put selective pressure on the virus population, such that vaccine resistant strains quickly predominate?
      Divergent strains with an accumulation of mutations all seems to be in the S domain.

  6. Well, then, thank God and the two doctors for their willingness to “preach it again,” especially to those looking for messengers they can trust.
    At least the UPP is coming with information and education, rather than coercion and job termination!

    • Information that has already been given. Nothing new, groundbreaking or earth shattering was stated. ABS practically has doctors on every week disseminating Information to the public.

      Too late too late shall be the cry

    • I guess you don’t watch ABS TV. The good doctor has been there as well. And he has been of Observer Radio and on Pointe FM. I mean sad that after all that you only now have heard the good doctor. Please pay attention cause many doctors are making the same call to get vaccinated.

  7. How could it be too late when we have had the highest number of COVID deaths in one month? There are still many people who need to be persuaded. There is still so much to be done and we all have a responsibility.

    • So true. We all have the responsibility to try and convince our neighbor why it is important for them to take the vaccine. All Vaccinated All Protected

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